Ken Jeffries

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  1. 97 votes
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    Under review  ·  30 comments  ·  Acrobat for Windows and Mac » PDF Forms  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    Hey, Adobe,

    Well, I didn't see this included in the latest update. Can you please *give* us an update on progress?

    Thanks!

    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    Jeff,
    Thanks for trying. While I can see how what you suggest might work for elements already extant in the document, it does NOT allow for selection of added elements, such as radio buttons and text boxes, and those are what I need to be able to precisely place—at least it didn't work for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but no matter what I tried, the elements that I added to the document could not be selected in the Edit mode (which is where you can select "edit with Illustrator"), and in the Prepare Form mode, editing with Illustrator is not an option.
    Back to square one.
    Adobe, please post an update on this query soon.
    Thanks to all!

    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    Hello, Adobe!

    Any movement on this yet? It's been almost a year, now, and 6 months since Mr. Rosenthol's last post. In the meantime, we now have 37 votes—and counting!

    Can I provide any more help or explanation?

    Thanks!

    Ken

    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    Thanks for sharing a rather scarring event, Rae, that brings into vivid focus some of the reasoning behind this request. That took guts.
    Thanks, also, for voting for this. As you can see, we've had a few more come onboard since your 11 January post. I've tried to get the word out in other threads using this link:
    http://tinyurl.com/PrecisePlacementOfObjects
    If anyone who visits this page can get that link out, it will be greatly appreciated.

    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    One final thought for you, Rae: it would appear you didn't vote for this feature request. Could I ask you to do that if you feel this is a feature Acrobat users need? The more votes, the more likely Adobe is to spend the time and money necessary on this.

    Something I think a lot of users don't realize is that Acrobat is a *huge, complex* program, and making ANY change is a *mammoth* undertaking. It's not like you can just change a few lines of code and say "Voila!"

    We, as users, must really make the case, through our votes and our comments here—at this feature request page, in addition to all the other forum threads—for the need for these features, or they will NOT be implemented. After they ARE implemented, we all need to come back to this page and say a big THANK YOU to the developers who make it happen.

    So please, cast your vote, and direct all interested parties to this page via this link:
    http://tinyurl.com/PrecisePlacementOfObjects, both now and after the features are available.
    Thanks to all!
    Ken

    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    Well, the first link (about using the keyboard to micro-nudge) didn't come through, so here is the proper one:
    https://forums.adobe.com/message/9778286#9778286

    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    Hi, Rae,
    Thank you very much for your post. Yes, I have used that script, but it is extremely "clunky" and very limited in its application. You can only move text fields, and you can only move one at a time, among other things.

    In fact, that post you found brought you here, or would have if you had clicked on my link that is embedded there. Here is a link to my original forum post which generated quite a bit of feedback from other users: Re: When using the keyboard to move an object in Acrobat Pro DC, is there a way to change the increment used or specify a location using X-Y coordinates? It includes another solution that I would like to see, but I don’t want to appear “greedy”: In InDesign, you can hold Shift-Command (on a Mac) to move by one-tenth of a single up-arrow increment.

    There are actually at least FOUR threads now on this subject, and we have 13 votes here, so this IS very important to a lot of Acrobat professionals. I believe Adobe is aware of the intense interest in this, and that is why they are considering the time and expense involved in implementing these features.

    Thanks again, Rae, and please direct to this feature request any other users you know so they can comment and add their vote. Here’s a link you can copy and paste: http://tinyurl.com/PrecisePlacementOfObjects.

    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    Hi, Leonard, it's me again. I don't believe I fully answered this part of your question:
    >>As to the ability to do other reference points, that's an interesting idea - but I don't really understand why that is actually useful in form design. Can you explain?<<

    I'll try to be brief, since I was so long-winded earlier. As just one example [brief, remember?], let's say you have an existing form created in InDesign with a table in the middle of the page that has been exported to pdf and opened in Acrobat for editing [we’re going back to the name-line example].

    That table is not an active element when you add a new name box to the top of the form, so you cannot use the Align tools to line up the right edge of the table with the right edge of the new name box. However, if I could select the top, middle or bottom right-hand reference point on that name box, I could drag out a vertical guide, get the x-axis measurement, and then set the right edge of the name box to the same setting. If I drag out a horizontal guide and select the appropriate reference point, I can also set the y-axis measurement to line up with a new signature line that was created as a graphic line element. Again, this could require a four-decimal-point precision to be close enough that the naked eye would not pick up on any infinitesimal misalignments; and again, mouse movement and Position tab settings have not proven precise enough to accomplish this.

    Picky? Yes, but that's how I make my living. Being free-lance, if I'm not picky I'm out of work.

    Okay, that’s one example. If you need more, please reply here.
    I’ll shut up now, but thanks again.

    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    >>Ken Jeffries commented · November 09, 2017 12:45
    Thanks for looking at this. No, sir or ma'am, the Properties box does NOT do this. The precision there (at present) is only two decimal places, and I need it to allow for four decimal places; i.e., 10,000ths of an inch as opposed to the current 100ths of an inch.<<

    Thanks again for looking at this. 10,000ths of an inch equates to four decimal places, which is the precision available in InDesign. The reference point ability is also available in InDesign, and I actually use both every time I work in ID (i.e., every day).

    As far as why these features are needed, I believe a couple of reasons are explained in my original request above and comments below (please see), but it boils down to being able to create a complex, fillable form or to edit a form that has already been created, without having to go through the process of recreating it from scratch and then making it fillable, again. The forms I create range from two to ten pages (usually), have MULTIPLE check-boxes and radio buttons, incorporate javascripts, and must be signable; so, being able to edit them (at my bosses' request) after they have already been made fillable would save, literally, HOURS of time. As I mentioned above, if I need to create any new element, the requested precision would enable me to place that item exactly where it needs to be in order to prevent having to recreate the form. Yes, that sometimes results in a "crowded" form, but 95% of the time, my bosses will accept that.

    Re: the Position tab—try this: create any series of identical objects, say at least ten, and position them either vertically or horizontally in a row. You can easily do this with the "Create Multiple Copies" command after right-clicking an existing element. Now, with your mouse, nudge about half or more of these objects *just a little* off of the center line, but not so much as a cursor nudge. Select them all, then look at their position in the Properties tab. If you have them spaced closely enough, they will all show the same vertical or horizontal position, even though you know they are not because you just moved them. When you type a value into that particular position field, the elements WILL NOT MOVE because Acrobat already sees them as being at the same position. Yes, in this instance, you can use the Align command, but that is not the case with, say, the name-line example mentioned in the original post. That name-line example is just one instance in which these features are needed.

    I'm not sure what else to say. I don't want to repeat here what I've already posted elsewhere on this page. I just know that I get frustrated every time I have to create and try to position new elements in—or otherwise edit—a form that already is fillable. There are common elements in each group of forms (these are being created for a school setting—with the same basic forms created for different chapters/units), so it would be wonderful to know that I can specify a particular set of check-boxes to have the top-left corner || of the top element in the group || to be positioned at x-coordinate .5625 and y-coordinate 1.575, as it was when created in InDesign.

    There are so many other applications, but I would have to keep track over a period of time and then paste the list in here to comprehensively show you all of them, so I can only hope I have been cogent enough in my explanations to convince you that these are two worthwhile features that should be added to the user interface in Acrobat Pro.

    Again, I thank you VERY much for your time and consideration of these matters.

    Sincerely,
    Ken Jeffries

    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    Thanks for looking at this. No, sir or ma'am, the Properties box does NOT do this. The precision there (at present) is only two decimal places, and I need it to allow for four decimal places; i.e., 10,000ths of an inch as opposed to the current 100ths of an inch.

    Also, that entire Position tab of the Properties dialog is very counter-intuitive when it comes to the actual placement of an item. I am hoping that we could have a control-bar item similar to the one in InDesign that would allow precise placement using any reference point of the selected object. I would attach a screenshot if I could, but the idea is to be able to select any corner, mid-point, or the center-point of the object and position that point using x-y ruler coordinates, and also to change the width and height from that same reference point. If you don't understand what I mean, please open InDesign and see how it handles this.

    If not possible to place in the control-bar area, the Position tab could be modified to include the reference-point-selection widget, and the X - Y coordinate and W x H specification boxes changed to follow the InDesign model. This would greatly increase the usability of the Edit and Prepare Form functions in Acrobat, and greatly decrease my own frustration level with it.

    Thanks again for looking into this, and I will be excited to see this feature added to Acrobat!

    Ken Jeffries shared this idea  · 
  2. 56 votes
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    Under review  ·  20 comments  ·  Acrobat for Windows and Mac » Page Operations  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
    Ken Jeffries commented  · 

    Full disclosure: I haven't tried to do this in Acrobat, yet, but I do agree it should be an option and can anticipate that I will need this feature in the future.

    Having said that, the reason I am posting is to point out that "flaming" and name-calling on ANY forum just because you are frustrated is NOT likely to get you what you want.

    Not only is being respectful just common courtesy, but if it's me you're talking to, you're not very likely to get a positive response nor help with your feature request, and I'd guess the same is true for Adobe's experts, programmers, and designers.

    C'mon, people, cool down first, THEN post your request in friendly terms.

    Ken Jeffries supported this idea  · 
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