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3 votes
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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9 votesBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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2 votes
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3 votesBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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2 votesBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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4 votesBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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4 votesBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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2 votesBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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5 votesBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Would love to see the option to turn off the auto-generated hyperlinks in the file itself, rather than in the Acrobat application (via user preferences).
These "fake" hyperlinks are not accessible and often create problems for assistive technologies and accessibility checking software.
Accessible hyperlinks are tagged:
<Link>
<Link-OBJR> -
3 votesBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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17 votes
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
This is a good, helpful feature idea.
But I don't believe it's a "template" nor should be called a template.
Similar to just one feature of Word templates, the end user is prompted to save the file with a new name rather than overwrite the original file.
This has nothing to do with templates, but instead is about file handling.
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3 votesBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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231 votes
Hi,
Thank you for raising these accessibility issues. The post mentions about the following six bugs being introduced with the update that went live on September 14, 2021
1: Alt-Text from MS Word is not converting into the PDF. Instead, it is dropped and gibberish code is inserted
2: Every cell border on every table cell is being tagged as <P>PathPathPathPath
3: The underline on Hyperlinks should be tagged as artifacts
4: Borders and background shadings on Text Boxes are being tagged as a combination of <Figure>s and PathPathPath
5: Paragraph borders and shadings: same deal as #4 above.Per the PDF/UA-1 standard, they are visually decorative and should be artifacted
6: Dragging and dropping elements in both the Tag and Order panels is now broken.Would like to mention that out of these, #1 and #6 were introduced with the Sep 14 update and remaining (#2, #3, #4 & #5)…
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Before and after sample test files. Compare the tag trees in both samples.
Before the update = Acrobat PDF Maker 21
After the update = Acrobat PDF Maker 22An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
@Tanvi Rastogi and
@AnandSri
and the Adobe Acrobat development team
and the Adobe Accessibility Team,
Thank you!
This update improves the lives of 1/3 of the world's population that must use assistive technology to read and use PDFs.
That's 2.5 billion people.
Oh ... plus all of the millions of workers, authors, and educators worldwide who are required to make accessible documents per their country's human rights laws that require all content to be accessible to everyone.
You've done a good thing for society.
Thank you!
— Bevi Chagnon
PS: only one item above still needs work: the Word text box converts to a <Figure> tag, which should be artifacted. The rules and text are now tagged correctly.
I'm hoping we can see this correction soon!
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Repeating issue #2 from above:
2: Every cell border on every table cell is being tagged as: <P>PathPathPathPath. This violates PDF/UA-1 because unnecessary visual formatting is not being tagged with the artifact attribute.
The problem is with Adobe's conversion of Word to tagged PDF: the utility is creating an <Artifact> tag, which doesn't exist in the PDF/UA-1 standard where artifact is an attribute on a tag, not a tag/structural element.
Because the <Artifact> tag doesn't exist (it might be in the future PDF/UA-2 standard), Adobe role mapped it to a <P> which now causes PathPathPathPathPath to be discovered by assistive technologies and voiced by screen readers.
Every side of a border. On every cell. In every row of a table.
What a mess.
NOTE: The PDF/UA-2 standard is in development and not available to the public or most AT manufacturers. So the future <Artifact> tag is not recognized or processed by any AT on the market today. It will be years before this new standard becomes widely adopted and available for use.
Until then, Adobe needs to revert PDF Maker back to its previous setting where it placed the artifact "attribute" on PathPathPath, instead of using a vaporware <Artifact> tag.
This is a HUGE violation of accessibility / ADA laws worldwide.
See sample Word and PDF from the latest version (February 2022).
The BIGGER question is: why is Adobe building PDFs to a standard that doesn't yet exist? It's failing the people who depend on their technology.
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
@https://acrobat.uservoice.com/users/341005120-tanvi-rastogi,
Thanks for the updates.Bugs #2-#5 are indeed from a previous release, but they are now being flagged as errors in Acrobat's internal accessibility checker, especially in Table Headers.
Note: PathPathPath is a serious accessibility error no matter where it appears, not just in table headers.
Please don't wait until spring to fix this with all of the PathPathPath, whether they:
— appear in an <Artifact> tag (which is not a legal PDF/UA-1 tag),
— are role-mapped to <P> (which makes them discoverable by assistive technologies),
— are embedded and mixed in with the content,
And please don't tell us to turn off checking table headers (we're required by various country laws to ensure they are accessible). That's not allowable because we'd be breaking our laws.
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
HERE'S ANOTHER BUG:
Hyperlinks from latest Word 365 + latest PDF Maker don't work.
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
@ Tanvi, https://acrobat.uservoice.com/users/341005120-tanvi-rastogi
Any update on the fixes? I was told that there was a hot-fix in development.
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
ADDITIONAL RELATED ERROR:
Graphics in Word marked as "decorative" (which should become artifacted in the PDF) have code gibberish Alt-text in the PDF.#1: If a graphic is artifacted, it shouldn't have any Alt-Text at all.
#2: The gibberish Alt-text is being voiced by screen readers.Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
The 3rd of several problems in how PDF Maker (and InDesign's export to PDF utility) tag PDFs.
In complex tables (that is, a table with multi-row column headers, multi-column row headers, merged cells, or sub-headers in the middle of the table)...
1. Each <TH> must have a unique header ID, and
2. Each data cell <TD> must be associated with one or more header IDs.
This is required per the PDF/UA-1 accessibility guidelines, and is outlined in the Tagged PDF Syntax Guide, Sec. 5.4.1 (the Syntax Guide is available for free from https://www.pdfa.org/resource/tagged-pdf-best-practice-guide-syntax)
At this time, we can autogenerate the Header IDs (Table Editor / right-click on any cell, select Autogenerate Header Cells ID). Thank you for that, Adobe!
But we need the other half of this requirement: auto-associate each <TD> table cell with one or more Header Cell IDs. It's difficult and very time consuming to manually make these associations on long tables, plus former shortcuts that let us select multiple cells and apply an ID have now failed. See this Forums post https://community.adobe.com/t5/acrobat/accessibility-of-tables-does-it-have-to-take-hours/td-p/12143085.
This is a failure of Acrobat and along with missing Scope and Span on the header cells, causes most tables to fail accessibility checkers and take an inordinate amount of time to fix manually. (See scope and span at https://acrobat.uservoice.com/forums/590923-acrobat-for-windows-and-mac/suggestions/41399425-pdfmaker-set-the-scope-row-span-and-column-span )
Expected Outcome:
That after running a utility for tables, the tables have not just Header IDs (already there), but the association to the <TD> data cells.And, of course, Scope and Span, too.
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
#2 of several problems in how PDF Maker tags tables.
Extra unnecessary tags are created by Adobe's PDF Maker plugin for MS Office. These tags cause the PDF to be inaccessible. See the attached screen captures of a PDF from Word 365 with PDF Maker 21.5.80.
The unnecessary <P> holds Path Path graphic data for the borders around each cell in a row.
No human being wants to hear Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path when they access each table row. Screen readers voice the content of these tags, which is what a screen reader is supposed to do.
From PDF Maker for Office, a <P> Path Path tag is placed at the start of each <TR> row.
( KUDOS, you corrected tables from Adobe InDesign's built-in export utility, which used to create an <Artifact> tag (not the artifact attribute) with Path Path graphical data.)
Problem:
PROBLEM: it causes Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path to be voiced each time the tag is encountered in the table.
THEREFORE, remediators must locate each instance of this tag (one for each row of every table) and manually artifact it the correct way. Such a time-waste.
EXPECTED RESULT:
These <P> and <Artifact> tags with Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path Path should never ever appear in the tags tree at all, and are correctly artifacted out of the way for screen reader users.An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Adobe, you have 2 engineers on the PDF ISO committees for PDF/UA. THEY know what the tag structure should be and are very active contributors to the standard.
Refer to the "Syntax Guide" for the correct tag structure for PDF/UA-1. It was co-written by your 2 engineers and others (like me) who are PDF Association members and part of the working group that writes the standard.
Download a free copy of the Syntax Guide from https://www.pdfa.org/resource/tagged-pdf-best-practice-guide-syntax/
See sections 4.2.4 and 4.2.5.
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63 votes
Hi, This issue has been escalated. Currently engineering team is working on the fix. Please expect the fix soon.
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
ADOBE: This major bug makes PDF forms unusable on M1/Big Sur computers.
PLEASE view user comments and details at https://community.adobe.com/t5/acrobat-discussions/pdf-fillable-forms-are-blinking-non-stop/m-p/12633346/
The problem makes the text disappear when typing in form fields, and causes accessibility issues for those using certain types of assistive technologies.
The solutions posted there are not true solutions and this must be corrected at the software level for those running new Apple systems.
--Bevi Chagnon
Prerelease member and ACP -
14 votes
Thanks for your patience. We have investigated this issue and found that this has broken with a recent Office update and would require a fix from Microsoft.
This has also been raised on Microsoft fourms in several threads and acknowledged and it seems they are investigating this issue. Please follow these threads for updates.
As a workaround, please revert to older version of Office to make links work.
Thanks
Tanvi
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
See these related posts on the Adobe Forums:
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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4 votes
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
See this latest update to the bug at https://acrobat.uservoice.com/forums/590923-acrobat-for-windows-and-mac/suggestions/44270718-errors-links-in-pdf-made-from-word
AND VOTE!
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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11 votes
Hi,
As we checked on our side, this issue is related to the tagging functionality in InDesign. Please log the issue with them.Thanks
RachitBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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11 votes
Hi
Thanks for your feature request. We have taken a note of your request and this will be prioritized based on other backlog items.
Thanks
TanviAn error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Here is a screen cap from Table Editor in a PDF.
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
And do the same for PDFs exported from InDesign.
Both of Adobe's conversion utilities (export from InDesign and PDF Maker from MS Office) should correctly have the scope and span on all <TH> cells.
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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1 vote
Hi,
Since I haven’t heard from you, I believe the issue is resolved on your side.Feel free to contact us if you need any assistance.
Thanks
RachitAn error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
THIS IS NOT RESOLVED.
See revised bug report at https://acrobat.uservoice.com/forums/590923-acrobat-for-windows-and-mac/suggestions/43718271-pdf-tables-are-not-tagged-correctly-1-of-4Rachit, contact me directly if you need more information. And refer to our blog about the problem at https://www.pubcom.com/blog/2020_04-05/ACROBAT_tableeditor.shtml
--Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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2 votes
Hi
Can you please share a sample Office file with which issue is reproducible?
Thanks
TanviBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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No, I don't agree with this idea.
The Acrobat checker does not check for everything that makes a PDF accessible. Basics like tag reading order, architectural reading order, color contrast, appropriate Alt Text on graphics ... all of these can't be checked with ANY tool, let alone with Acrobat's built-in checker and Preflight utilities.