Feature request / Bug report

Make Accessible PDF's accessible.

The process to make a PDF accessible is overly complicated and buggy. Usually while doing this, something will go wrong and the only way to fix it is to close the document, open it again, do the same process and hope it works. This process should be as simplistic as possible so everything can be accessible.

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Anonymous shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
Need Info  ·  AdminRachit Jain (Software Engineer, Adobe) responded  · 

Hi Joel,
We are always working to make it a better of experience for our accessibility customers.
We’ll be adding the support of Undo/Redo in order panels and Reading Order Tool in our coming releases.
Can you please tell me why you need the Tags Panel and Reading Order to be merged.

Thanks
Rachit.

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  • Mike Craghead commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    I agree with the general sentiment: I've become pretty good at remediation but the learning curve was nutty, and I think it's a bit much to ask of folks whose brains are wired better for other tasks. I'm seeing a few expensive but effective products on the market which seem to have figured out how to automate many of the more labor-intensive tasks we're asked to perform in Acrobat, especially noticeable when there are hundreds of instances of the same problem (as seen in PAC3, for instance). My guess is that five years from now, accessibility will be a breeze. For the moment though, we're stuck with some serious clunkiness.

    Here's one item that would help a lot of folks:
    The tags panel is what most Assistive Tech pays attention to when establishing reading order, but the content panel, reading order panel and reading order "tool" (formerly TURO) are all easier to use than the tags panel. I believe they've been linked and unlinked from one another over the years, so now changes made in one panel are not reliably reflected in the others. It may be a pipe dream, but it seems like with a little programming smarts, Adobe could deliver a way to sync them all based on any one of them, either manually (via a button) or automatically, like, make a change and it is reflected across all panels.

    For example, we could drag items around in the content panel, then press "set reading order based on content panel." The (formerly) TURO popup would have a similar feature, so the little numbers in the corner of each "gray box" would actually matter. And of course the order panel (as in, the one in the stack with the tags panel) would have the same feature.

    I think heard a rumor that the order panel might be going away (again, not the TURO but the panel by the tags and such, in the left column). If it truly can't be given "teeth," as in, if it can't be used to re-order the Tags panel, then sure, lets' ditch it. But if it could be beefed up so it actually does what it looks like it does, then lets' keep it. Because the Tags panel requires a lot of expanding to figure out what's what, which makes it harder to use for sorting reading order.

    Cheers!

    Mike

  • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    PLEASE update Acrobat Pro DC's accessibility standard from WCAG 2.0 to WCAG 2.1. It came out a yaer ago, June 2018, but Acrobat does not yet support it.

    Government agencies now require 2.1 to comply with accessibility legislation: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/accessibility-requirements-for-public-sector-websites-and-apps

    Our accessible Pdfs are mostly for government agencies. If Acrobat does not update soon we can no longer use it and will have to find an alternative. Can anyone suggest any good apps that validate to WCAG 2.1?

  • Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    Thanks for adding the undo to the Order and Content panels.

    Some other tools we need:

    1. Ability to add these tags with the TURO/Reading Order tools:
    Caption
    Bibliographic Entry
    Block Quote
    Code
    Index
    Quote
    Table of Contents/TOC Item
    List / List Item / Lbl / Lbody

    Essentially, we need the entire PDF-1 tag set that is listed in an Acrobat tag's Properties/Tag drop down menu.
    2. In addition to the Auto IDs on table header cells (already there), auto scope and span on them, too.

    3. And match up the data cells <TD>s with their respective header ID <TH> cells. STEM and government tables are usually several pages long and doing this manually can take hours, even a day or longer.

    4. Ability to select some content and use AutoTag on it, not the entire document as it is now. In most documents, much of the tag structure is fine with some glitches on TOCs, tables, lists, etc. I don't want to loose the good tags when I use autotag, just want a portion to AI it into compliance.

    —Bevi (delegate to the ISO PDF & PDF/UA standards committees)

  • Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    Joel Crawford-Smith wrote: "And there are no alternatives to the product, so they don't have to fix anything."

    Actually, we now have some alternatives to Adobe's products. 2 competitors have released PDF products that focus on accessibility. This is not the forum to mention them so I won't say anything more, other than Adobe's competitors are now on the playing field.

  • Joel Crawford-Smith commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    Bevi, they are never going to fix this. Sometimes we help each other. But you won't find any help from Adobe here in User Voice forum regarding Acrobat Accessibility things. Standard operating procedure for accessibility issues is:

    1. Ignore it for a while.
    2. If they reply, they won't answer the original question.
    3. Ask some unnecessary question with an obvious answer, mark it as "Need Info". You can even post an example document, steps to reproduce, screenshots and it won't help.
    4. Finally, keep asking those types of questions until you give up, say they will not fix it, or they stop replying.

    Meanwhile, people with disabilities suffer because consumers cannot make documents accessible because the product is so impossible to use. And there are no alternatives to the product, so they don't have to fix anything.

  • Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    @Vivek Chandra,
    Those who remediate PDFs for accessibility use 3 panels:
    — Tags
    — Order (formerly the architectural/construction panel)
    — Content

    Right now, we have undo only in the Tags panel.
    We need it for the other 2 panels, too.

    This is critical.

  • Don Massie commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    I'm not the original post author, but I'm jumping in here....I've noticed that the Undo/Redo function actually does not work if one remediates tags via the Touch Up Reading Order tool, that functionality is only available if one manually changes items in the tags panel. Why is that?
    Changing it with either approach will change the structure in both the tags and content tab/panels. I'd expect undo/redo to work the same in both instances, why does this not work when changes are made via the TURO tool?

  • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    KISS=Keep it simple stupid. When a device becomes such a challenge for its users the enjoyment and practicality of a device becomes so cumbersome and frustrating to use that eventually the customer base will find a better alternative after all how many times must a user tediously and time consuming enter all the right info only to get to the last step and the product fails to properly integrate the information, its really simple it should only take one time, very frustrating otherwise.

  • AdminVivek Chandra (Admin, Adobe) commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

    Hello Sir

    Can you please be more specific in what are the things that trouble you. We have already added the support of Undo/Redo while remediating tags.
    We are also working on making improvements in the Touch Up Reading Order tool. Your specific pain points will help us plan better.

    Thanks
    Vivek

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