Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
My feedback
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6 votes
Hi,
I have reported the issue to the Engineering Team and you may see it fixed in future releases.Thanks
RachitBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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6 votes
Hi,
I have shared your concern with Engineering team. Meanwhile Please share some sample documents via weblink which you are trying to combine so that we can fix it for you.Thanks
RachitBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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44 votes
Hi Joel,
We are always working to make it a better of experience for our accessibility customers.
We’ll be adding the support of Undo/Redo in order panels and Reading Order Tool in our coming releases.
Can you please tell me why you need the Tags Panel and Reading Order to be merged.Thanks
Rachit.An error occurred while saving the comment An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Thanks for adding the undo to the Order and Content panels.
Some other tools we need:
1. Ability to add these tags with the TURO/Reading Order tools:
Caption
Bibliographic Entry
Block Quote
Code
Index
Quote
Table of Contents/TOC Item
List / List Item / Lbl / LbodyEssentially, we need the entire PDF-1 tag set that is listed in an Acrobat tag's Properties/Tag drop down menu.
2. In addition to the Auto IDs on table header cells (already there), auto scope and span on them, too.3. And match up the data cells <TD>s with their respective header ID <TH> cells. STEM and government tables are usually several pages long and doing this manually can take hours, even a day or longer.
4. Ability to select some content and use AutoTag on it, not the entire document as it is now. In most documents, much of the tag structure is fine with some glitches on TOCs, tables, lists, etc. I don't want to loose the good tags when I use autotag, just want a portion to AI it into compliance.
—Bevi (delegate to the ISO PDF & PDF/UA standards committees)
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Joel Crawford-Smith wrote: "And there are no alternatives to the product, so they don't have to fix anything."
Actually, we now have some alternatives to Adobe's products. 2 competitors have released PDF products that focus on accessibility. This is not the forum to mention them so I won't say anything more, other than Adobe's competitors are now on the playing field.
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
@Vivek Chandra,
Those who remediate PDFs for accessibility use 3 panels:
— Tags
— Order (formerly the architectural/construction panel)
— ContentRight now, we have undo only in the Tags panel.
We need it for the other 2 panels, too.This is critical.
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19 votes
Thanks for your feature request. We have added it in our backlog which will be prioritized based on other items. We will keep you posted with the progress.
Thanks
TanviAn error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Every day, millions of PDFs are made from Word that require accessibility (most governments worldwide have accessibility requirements).
This is a priority requirement that will help countless people work more efficiently, as well as help 40% of the world's population that benefits from accessible documents.
Adobe has built this option into InDesign's PDF export utility, so please add it to PDF Maker for MS Office.
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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2 votes
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Download the US federal government's W9 PDF form from the IRS website, https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw9.pdf
Save the PDF to your desktop.
Fill it out.
Attempt to print it out.An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Correction: the workaround is to SAVE AS a graphic, such as PNG. That method records the field data.
No version of printing to anything works consistently.
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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12 votes
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
The broken tag tree happens whenever ANY editorial change is made the actual content, even swapping a period for a comma.
And the broken tags can happen anywhere in the document, not just on the page where the editorial change was made.
This is a serious bug; please fix it!
There is not workaround.Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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33 votes
Hi,
I have escalated the issue to the Engineering Team and will get back to you once I get an update on this.Thanks
RachitAn error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
This problem detailed in the main forums is related to the problem on this page.
https://community.adobe.com/t5/Acrobat/Autotagged-tags-in-Tags-panel-Content-Panel-and-Read-Order-do/m-p/10624100It shows how the tags shown in the Order Panel don't match those in the Tag Tree.
The PDF/UA standards require that the Tags Tree have accurate tags, but other technologies use the Order Panel and its tags and reading order.
So we need both panels to be 100% in synch with each other: same tags and same reading order in both the Tags and Order panels.
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Thank you, Rachit.
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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commented
Dear Adobe,
Please FIX THE PROBLEM and stop blaming the other divisions.
This is costing governments worldwide millions of dollars to fix InDesign's PDFs by hand in Acrobat.
Now that you have viable competitors that can create compliant PDFs, don't throw your customer base under the bus! They will get up and run to your competition.
The problem began with the release of InDesign CC:2017.
Get the 3 programming teams together (InDesign, Acrobat & PDF Producer/Library) and figure out how to fix it. -
20 votes
Hi,
I have escalated the request to the higher management and we have kept it in our radar. You may see it in our near releases.Thanks
RachitAn error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
Thanks, Rachit!
--Bevi Chagnon
Accessibility Pros | www.PubCom.comBevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
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318 votesUnder review · 85 comments · Acrobat for Windows and Mac » PDF Forms · Flag idea as inappropriate… · Admin →
An error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
This would be a very valuable feature in AcroForms.
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
supported this idea
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7 votes
Hi,
We’ve kept a note of this Feature Request and we will revisit this once we have more users reporting this to us.
We’ll let you know if we get this planned for future.
Thanks
Ayush JainAn error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
With screen resolutions increasing so quickly, this would help people in several ways:
1) It would allow them to adjust the GUI to meet their individual needs.
2) Especially helpful when the user has a 2nd monitor attached to the main device...and it has a differentt resolution
3) Helps meet your VPAT for accessibility.This is a no-brainer to me!.
Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
supported this idea
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6 votes
Hello,
Could you please brief me on the workflows where you are facing the issue.Regards
RachitAn error occurred while saving the comment Bevi Chagnon | PubCom.com
commented
This a problem for anyone who uses a screen reader who is trying to either use or make a PDF compliant. The problems have been there for eons,.
It's time to fix the problem.@Carolyn T., the links to your videos do not work. Website states that they are unavailable.
Quote: "Alternatively, can I ask if there is any purpose for the reading order and the tag order to be different? Is this a legacy limitation of an old technology?"
They are 2 very different parts of a PDF file.
What's called the Order Panel today used to be called the Architectural/Construction order panel, Z-Order panel, and Content Order panel. It is based literally on how the content was created in the original SOURCE file, such as MS Word or Adobe InDesign. The first item placed into the file is first in the Arch/Const order, etc.
The Order controls the sequence of the content in the file. It's the original order built into all PDF files, and it was the original order for assistive technologies (AT), such as screen readers, before mark-up tags were added in 2001 (Acrobat 5).
Tags are a more recent development (2001) and the PDF/UA accessibility standard didn't come around until 2012. This is the international standard that tells us how to use tags in PDFs to make them accessible to those using assistive technologies.
Tags don't control the content. Instead, they LABEL the content so that it can be identified and processed by assistive technologies.
The PDF/UA-1 standard states that all assitive technologies should use the order of the tags in the Tags panel as the reading order. That's a very nice theory, but in the real world some AT doesn't quite follow that standard, especially older legacy AT that was developed before the first version of the PDF/UA standards of 2012...and that is still in use by end usrs.
Plus many other technologies used by everyone use the Order panel not the Tags panel to render the content. Think of tools that convert a multi-column PDF into a single column EPUB-like file for use on mobile devices.
I doubt the 2 will ever be merged, maybe the Order panel will become hidden and out of sight some time in the future. but for now they perform 2 different--but coordinated--functions in a PDF.
Our shop reccommends this remediation/checking process. We do attempt to make the Order panel match the Tags panel as much as is reasonable to do because this makes the file more machine readable by all technologies. However, we will let minor differences go when it's too costly or time consuming to make both orders match up. That's minor differences that don't affect the comprehension of the content by the end user.
1. Examine the Tags tree and note errors (but don't fix them yet).
2. Examine the construction order in the Order panel.
3. Correct the tags and order in the Order panel.
4. Items corrected in the Order panel should automatically be reflected in the Tags tree, but sometimes that doesn't work out (we need more tools in the Order panel to complete our toolset).
5. So in the Tags Options menu, check the Role Map. Very often it's throwing off the tag names.
Here's an older post by Duff Johnson about PDF structure and tags. It's still valid today. https://acrobatusers.com/tutorials/what-are-pdf-tags-and-why-should-i-care
6. Also edit and move tags as needed in the Tags panel.